Andreas Antonopoulos: “Give Bitcoin Two Years”

By Hal M. Bundrick Feb 8, 2015 9:49 AM EST

NEW YORK (InsideBitcoins) — Technology industries are always on the verge of world domination or sudden collapse. Biotech, nanotech, robotics, AI and yes, cryptocurrencies, all live in a state approaching euphoria one day, followed by utter despair the next. Groundbreaking innovations are matched by earth shattering failures. There is no dearth of “news” to report.


Andreas Antonopoulos

And so it was at the recent Bitcoin & the Blockchain Summit in San Francisco. Like many bitcoin conferences, one speaker enthuses the audience while the next confuses.

Tales of technological limits, encroaching regulation and wary consumers can leave even the most enthusiastic devotee a bit deflated. But at the end of the one-day bitcoin-by-the-Bay conference, attendees were left with a rousing call to arms, led by Andreas Antonopoulos.

Antonopoulos is a security expert, entrepreneur and high-vis bitcoin advocate. With the rigid countenance — and hairstyle — of a Star Trek TOS Klingon, Antonopoulos paced the stage and made his case for bitcoin, sans graphics or gamification — just a man, a mike and massive conviction. The audience put away their smartphones, stowed their MacBooks and drank it in.

The currency is a joke, but the technology…

His first target: the media.

“The media is refining the message, saying ‘The currency is a joke, but the technology — I don’t know, maybe there’s something there,'” he said. “Bitcoin is a currency, bitcoin is a network, bitcoin is a technology and you can’t separate these things. A consensus network that bases its value on the currency does not work without the currency.”

Bitcoin’s greatest strength: it’s dumb

Then he dug into the reasons why bitcoin works, saying bitcoin is a dumb, transaction-processing network. “That is one of its strongest and most amazing features,” Antonopoulos proclaimed. It’s a dumb network that supports smart devices, pushing all of the intelligence to the edge.

“That means if you build a new application on top of bitcoin, you can operate the end devices and you can build an application, and you don’t need to ask for anyone’s permission to innovate. It’s innovation without permission. It’s innovation without central approval.”

[Read More: Andreas Antonopoulos Lays Out the 3 Pillars of Bitcoin Mass Adoption]

Compare that to the current banking system, he said – built around very smart networks absolutely and tightly controlled to deliver very specific applications to very dumb end points. Services the bank decides to give their customers.

“When Visa innovates only Visa wins. If Bank of America makes something new and snazzy, they do it competitively and at the exclusion of every other bank that didn’t implement that feature. Bitcoin is a common resource whose use increases the value of that resource at the exclusion of no one. The power of pushing intelligence to the edge, of not making decisions in the center, moves the innovation into the hands of its end users.”

The worst year in bitcoin

And as far as 2014 being the ‘worst year in bitcoin,’ Antonopoulos says that’s only if you were paying attention to the price. In fact, the year saw the deployment of two remarkable technologies: multi-sig and hierarchal deterministic (HD) wallets.

“Give us two years. Now what happens when you throw 500 companies and 10,000 developers at the problem?”

“The companies that invented and deployed those two features did so in 2012 and we reap the benefits today. And in 2014, during ‘the worst year of bitcoin,’ 500 startups received $500 million in investment generating tens of thousands of jobs — and none of that innovation has come back yet, because they just started. Give us two years. Now what happens when you throw 500 companies and 10,000 developers at the problem? Give (it) two years and you will see some pretty amazing things in bitcoin.”

Antonopoulos finished with a prediction.

“You put an open, decentralized ecosystem: open source, open standards, open networking and the intelligence and innovation pushed all the way to the edge — put that against a closed system, controlled by a central provider, whose permission you need in order to innovate and who will only innovate at the exclusion and competition of all of the other companies — and we will crush them.”

Facebook Comments

  • SilentLennie

    An other year later, BTC isn’t doing so well.

  • Solio


  • If you have no idea, jstfu

  • Jonathon Gray

    Antonopoulos is a Greek douche-bag and a scam artist. Pumper and dumper in the extreme. Look at his country for Christ sake, the hub of scams. Don’t want to work, don’t want to pay taxes, country bankrupt, and this fool, just a scammer trying to make a quick buck. Deport him quick. Financial terrorist.

  • Alfred Jordan

    Since the date of the article 2/08/15 the number of transactions per day on average has risen approximately 50% from 95,000 per day to 140,000 per day. Transaction fees have risen from 12 BTC to 25 BTC per day Market Capitalization has remained flat at approximately $3,7 billion. So on average the price of Bitcoin has fallen slightly. Currency speculation appears to have slowed making Bitcoin value more predictable. There are more Bitcoins now than in February 2015. Investment in Bitcoin – Blockchain has risen 500% over the same period from last year to more than $500,000,000. Awareness of Bitcoin by the public whether positive or negative has been driven by government, print and social media. Taxation and determination of the character of Bitcoin as a commodity or currency are be subject to policy conclusions worldwide making its status clearer. The Blockchain has taken center stage along with Bitcoin.Banks, Exchanges, Blockchain based Clearing and Settling facilities, Property registries and Smart Contracts are seeing hundreds of millions of dollars invested in 2015. Eventually the public will understand that for every Bitcoin there are 100 million Satoshis a sub unit of Bitcoin is simultaneously created when a Bitcoin is created as a mining reward. Micro payments are also growing in use. The insurance market is beginning to offer employee theft and fraud protection for Bitcoin protecting the consumer and the facilities that serve them. Investment in secure wallets and vendor devices is rising significantly. Greece survived its bank holiday using Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Fraud and money launderers are going to jail. NYS issued licenses for both Trusts and the bit-license because the state sees cryptocurrencies as significant. I think Andreas is beginning to smile.

  • ozlanthos

    Bitcoin is by and large the best money ever invented… Keep passing it off like the Blockchain is the only important part of it….. it will end up making mockeries of all claims/predictions such as yours.


  • Drink?? Great idea…I think I’ll have one..

  • Robin

    He is using to be paid 100% in bitcoin. Soon there will be a marketplace as well on where you buy everything 100% in bitcoin. The spread of Bitcoin is inevitable. It is just a matter of time.

  • AlexVela

    Buy! Buy! Buy!

  • Helikopterben

    My average entry point is $14. I just thought I would let you know. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

  • David Custer

    Man I love this quote! This is still the dream of many of us in the Bitcoin community.

    ““You put an open, decentralized ecosystem: open source, open standards, open networking and the intelligence and innovation pushed all the way to the edge — put that against a closed system, controlled by a central provider, whose permission you need in order to innovate and who will only innovate at the exclusion and competition of all of the other companies — and we will crush them.”

  • I recently read an article on Wired titled The Rise and Fall of Bitcoin. It wasn’t until I got to the end I realised it was written in 2011. The media’s anti-bitcoin sentiment hasn’t changed in 3 years yet here we are with 100,000+ merchants now accepting it and more people investing in Bitcoin technology, development and Bitcoins themselves than ever. Yes sir, Mr Antonopoulos, the next 2 years will be huge for Bitcoin.

  • Clément Francomme

    Probably my company very soon 🙂
    Dev, sales, project managers…!

  • What kind of job pays 100 % in BTC ?

  • Russell Spears

    No Explorer is what happens when some corporatist is directing 10,000 developers.

  • Nealson Idiotquist

    He only cons people so he can care for the homeless that are freezing to death this winter. He’s a modern day Robin Hood.

  • Lee Anne

    …and the community estimates that bitcoin will be worth $784 by then (pulled from Hedgeable’s btc price estimator) EXCITING!

  • c4p0ne

    Once again, robust contempt for humanity thrusts up its foul head in the form of an admitted, proud conman whose posts often consist of bragging to the world as to how deeply he revels in conning people out of their money. Yeah, clowns are easy to remember.

  • c4p0ne

    Good thing you need not apply.

  • Neal Palmquist

    Once again. You are wrong. I used to be the only one with an anti bitcoin stance. I believed it would be impossible to catch you bitcoiners in every suicide cult lie that you tell people. But today I find that every article is already slamming you bitCONers in the comments before I get there. I don’t see how you think we are thinning because trolling bitcoin has grown not to be so much fun for me anymore. Everybody beats me to the punch.

    I feel like I hear somebody else yelling “FREEBIRD!” at a concert before I get the chance to draw my breath for it.

    You think we are thinning, but my work load is almost completely erased. Like the real money in you wallet.

  • Ammon Ammon

    I am feeling that honey badger in me right now! I know honey badgers probably don’t have opposable thumbs but they sure as he77 have a clawed middle finger to offer to the msm and big banks.

  • lakawak

    Wow! One example! Nice!

  • lakawak

    Wow…I hate the fact that intelligent people will have to support you your whole life.

  • lakawak

    So…a guy who is heavily invested in bitcoin…losing lost of money over hte past year is trying to talk it up? Wow! That MUST mean it is true!

  • Fools

    To all the naysayers about Bitcoin. You guys are really underestimating the importance of Bitcoin in the underground world. How else is a junkie from the UK going to buy heroin straight from the manufacturer in Vietnam. How else can a single mother from Russia strip for a Japanese business man over skype and be tipped via Facebook so she doesn’t have to get taxed 30% from those streaming adult video sites. Or what about all those lovely people that like counterfeit stuff like bags, wallets, oh and uh fake USD! HOW ELSE WILL THESE PEOPLE BUY THEIR ILLEGAL PRODUCTS? PAYPAL? GOOGLE WALLET? VISA? Whoever thinks selling black market items on the internet is going to magically go away is delusional and foolish. As of right now Bitcoin is the only means to do so and have a 99% chance of not getting caught. Most people are good and don’t do that kind of stuff. Most people fail to realize how big and fast the internet black market is growing.

    If shipping services (usps, fedex, etc) ever begin to accept Bitcoin as a means of payment, that is when we will see a drastic rise in price.

  • Lexi Price

    Ah a bit of Darwinian Law for the sure footed and fearless!

  • Elwar

    Today reminds me of the days when I was trying to decide if the mobile phone technology was to the point where I could drop my home phone. I was able to do it but with a lot of restrictions and life adjustments. And over time it got easier as phone plans got better and coverage got better.
    Now I am getting paid 100% in bitcoin and it is similar, I have to make some life adjustments but I can see it getting easier as coverage expands and more people accept it.

  • Nick Grasslin

    Definitely your own issues/negativity speaking buddy. Pretty easy to see. If you don’t like the tech then don’t invest into it or use it as a currency. Simple as that. Others DO see potential in it. And I am sure tons of people have already gotten rich off investing in it. I’m also sure tons of people have lost their shirts on investing in it as well.
    I for one am very interested in BTC and will continue to look into it and fund a small amount (5-10 coins) for speculative purposes and to diversify my portfolio.
    Opportunities like this don’t come very often so even if it fails I will be glad that I at least tried.

  • c4p0ne

    It’s a good thing the disguised insight seems to be slowly overtaking the disguised concern.

  • mark boyle

    Anti-bitcoin rhetoric disguised as concern is the same thing as the Pro-bitcoin rhetoric disguised as insight.

  • mark boyle

    People only think its a great technology because it hasn’t gotten exploited yet.

  • gphx

    The US dollars you undoubtedly cherish have lost 98% of their value in a few generations. That’s with the government and federal reserve doing their jobs ‘as designed’. It’d be difficult for those looking for an alternative to be greater fools. Please describe how Bitcoin could possibly do worse. And the USD is poised to do a whole lot worse.

  • gphx

    No one can say why you’d want to use it. People can only say why they’d want to use it. One reason is using Bitcoin they don’t have Google, Apple, and Visa building a dossier of personal information and buying behavior to be sold to the highest bidder. Yes, I have some serious reservations about Bitcoin. But in today’s world people who don’t have serious reservations about the USD simply aren’t paying attention. Putting all of one’s funds in Bitcoin would be as foolhardy as putting all of one’s funds in any investment including USD.

  • Hiawata77

    Look to Argentina.

  • Johnny Bravo

    I’m buying up all I can right now!

  • Globe99

    Because I can totally use Apple Pay to send money to anyone in the world for a pittance without permission from any central authority. Because I can totally use Google Wallet to programmatically structure N-of-M transactions, smart contracts, escrow and crowdfunding without the need for a central clearinghouse.

    Do people pay with credit cards primarily because they have the full protection of the CC company behind them? Or do they use credit cards because it’s more convenient than having to carry around a bunch of cash? In fact, one might make the argument that the necessity for all the consumer protection guarantees with credit cards is precisely because they are such an inherently insecure method of payment.

  • Toipster

    Oh hai, VTHVBE. Usually, anti-bitcoiners just start cussing me out when I try to comment to them – so, thanks for not doing that. Because of that, I’ll take the time to answer your comment.

    # 1: As a small business owner, bitcoin makes things easier, not more difficult. I can accept bitcoin at no cost. I don’t have to set up an expensive card reader – nothing. All I do is scan a QR code for payment and done. It is even cheaper than Square card reader (which I also have).

    #2: As for online payments, it also makes things extremely easy. If I want to buy a movie online, all I have to do is once again scan a code. The process takes less time than entering my 16 credit card code, and all my personal info. All I have to do is scan the code. It is leaps and bounds easier than Credit Cards.

    #3: As for the LOCAL store aspect, I agree – Bitcoin does need to be accepted more broadly, but the technology is in the early stages. When I do find a local merchant who accepts bitcoin though, I give them business, because bitcoin makes things EASY.
    Another point – Bitcoin is excellent for MICROLENDING. Say, using BTCJAM. I can lend bitcoin to people across the world, and while I do get non-payments sometimes, I normally get all I’ve lent and 20%APR back, and I see the impact I’ve made helping people out all over the world.

    Also, credit cards charge fees – why would I want an additional cost on top of what I am buying? I wouldn’t. I’d rather use a debit card than a credit card…

    So… you said this: “And after you’ve thought about that for a while, you may begin to realize why BTC has slowly and steadily fallen over the past 15 months” as if you are trying to teach me a lesson.
    Perhaps, rather than being so smug in the future, you should be a little more humble towards a tech you obviously do not use, and thus – do not understand. You say the price has fallen over the past 15 months… well, I started using BTC when it was around $10.. I don’t know why you are bringing up price anyway.

    Have a good day sir! May the banks be with you.

  • Yes, it’s mildly fascinating if you enjoy the misfortune of others.

    Those who invested at $1,200 bought for the long term and knew it was a high risk asset. It’s also unfair to judge their long term investment in its first year with the benefit of hindsight. Let’s see in 5-10 years! What were you saying when bitcoin was at $0.1 or $1? I bet you were bearish back than too (if you you knew about it) and you would’ve been wrong and you could be wrong again now. Bitcoin has recovered from -90% drops before and went to +1,000% onwards a few times.

    All these events and speculations are not an argument against Bitcoin’s future potential. It’s a side note, and a not very interesting one in the grand scheme of things.

    Even if Bitcoin goes and stays below $100 forever it will bring so much benefit to society overall if it gets adopted globally, that people win no matter if they invested in it or not.

  • I have been involved with buying selling investing etc in Bitcoin since 2012. If big money or smart money was sold on bitcoin and thought it had an actual chance to become whatever all these fools keep pumping year after year they would have been all in already. We would be talking about btc going to 10K in the near future not btc going to $100 in the near future. The bottom line is Btc is actually controlled in a sense by maybe several dozen individuals. The price and the very existence of bitcoin is controlled by the “whales”. They call the shots. They could crush the market to single digits with a single market sell order if they wanted. Or they could buy the market to $1000. Hence this is the major problem. There are just too few people that hold the majority of the coins in existence. Institutions,wall street, hedge funds etc dont gamble and investing in something where they could lose virtually everything if someone was to dump 100k coins isnt worth the risk. They will make their millions or billions with or without bitcoin doing what they are doing, they dont need bitcoin. And without that kind of money how is bitcoin going to go to the moon? Bitcoin will always be there but its going to be a very very long grind to see any type of substantial returns. THere is no new money coming in. The money that will eventually come in will be bled out by all the bag holders, or whales looking to exit, who have bought in over the last year. Instead of the infrastructure being built that $500 million should have been used to help stabilize the price hundreds of dollars ago. Over the past year, I bet more people have left btc than new people have come in. THink about this. If you bought btc at anytime in the last year and a half you are in the red by up to 90%.

  • Elias Sterling

    I think your view of Bitcoin technology is very narrow-minded. You discount that the blockchain and the currency aren’t easily separated. Currency is just the first app.

    Utilizing a trustless concensus network is today what people though of facebook 10 years ago. Who cares?

    Well, when most of the electronics in your house run on this platform on the “internet of things” architecture you’ll see why, and probably regret not investing or learning about it when it was early days. Regards.


    “You missed out on investing in Bitcoin (gold, silver, etc., etc.) when it was very high-risk / very high potential reward and now you want to see it burn to justify your decision not to invest.”

    No, I’m just fascinated by the psychology of people who buy into stock bubbles and investment scams, and the torturous mental flip-flops they go through to justify their decision.

    Ask anyone who bought BTC at $1200 how they feel about their brilliant investment decision today.

  • rancor01

    If you only focus on the price of things in your life, you’re going to find yourself awfully disappointed most of the time.
    Not sure why it is that if you don’t have a dog in this fight, you focus so much on the subject of Bitcoin. Do you do this with other subjects you care nothing about, or are we special?
    But, yes – good night to you – on this forum discussing something you don’t like with people you don’t know. I’m sure it’s very fulfilling.

  • Most day-to-day economic activity is shifting towards the internet, so Bitcoin does become more and more relevant too, as credit cards and services piggy backing on them are not safe to use for that purpose (or expensive to insure, not just 2-3% you mentioned, there are more hidden costs that is built into the prices already).

    Another benefit for day to day use of Bitcoin is safety. If I have my Bitcoins on my phone I can be sure nobody will be able to steal them from me unless they are willing to torture me to give up my passwords. Unlike with credit cards or cash where it’s easy to steal your wallet and your funds. Even if my phone is stolen, my Bitcoins can be safely recovered from a backup I have at home or at the office. This is a huge problem in less safe countries that Bitcoin solves.

    Your example about walking up to the richest is not fair, but it does explain why you’re so opposed to Bitcoin. You missed out on investing in Bitcoin when it was very high-risk / very high potential reward and now you want to see it burn to justify your decision not to invest. Your argument has nothing to do with Bitcoin, all to do with your own issues.

    The reason the example is unfair because Bitcoin adoption is voluntary. Nobody is forcing anybody to use it. People adopt it if they see a benefit or a potential future benefit in it. It’s more like walking up to the richest people and saying: “hey, we’ve developed this currency which has huge benefits for many and you’re welcome to join if you want, but it will work with or without you.”

    In fact a big part of Bitcoin fans do NOT want to see big money taking over Bitcoin, because they are afraid that if big money invests they will want to control it for their own benefit, which may destroy the fair and voluntary attributes of Bitcoin.

    Do you have any other arguments or that was it?


    “Bitcoin is already at $1200! Soon it will be at $40,000! Buy now!” – every BTC true believer back in 2013.

    … You have a good night, as well.

  • kordless

    Bitcoin (or more specifically, the blockchain) is computed trust. People are going to have cognitive dissonance over it, because it deals with trust. They will continue to do so until it goes mainstream. Just be patient and ignore the cage rattlers. They’ll fall inline as soon as their bandwagon biases kick on.

  • rancor01

    At least you’re in good company with fellow fools:

    There’s no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share.
    – Steve Ballmer

    There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home. – Ken Olson

    With over fifteen types of foreign cars already on sale here, the
    Japanese auto industry isn’t likely to carve out a big share of the
    market for itself. – Businessweek

    A rocket will never be able to leave the Earth’s atmosphere. – New York Times.

    … Go back to sleep, grampa. We’ve heard enough of your negativity (based on nothing but personal opinion) for one night.


    Right, so BTC is going to do wonderfully nebulous things for all sorts of people – just no one anyone else happens to know. And just coincidentally, make you fabulously rich because you ran that piece of mining software on your desktop computer a few years back. You will become one of the new elite in control of all the world’s wealth, because no one will ever think to use any cryptocurrency blockchain except the one you’ve bought into.

    Sure. Whatever.


    If all economic activity consisted of sending money to friends in other countries, then that might be a reason to use Bitcoin. But since most day-to-day economic activity consists of spending money within one’s own country, then it makes very little sense to use BTC.

    Bitcoin is the equivalent of walking up to the richest people in the world and saying, “Hey, I’ve developed this new currency, with this online ledger. Oh, and according to this ledger, I just happen to own the majority of all this currency. So when every other currency in the world collapses, I am POSITIVE you incredibly wealthy people will have no choice but to use my currency, and use my ledger which says that I am now wealthier than all the rest of you put together. Because, you know, this currency is BRILLIANT!”

    Sorry, but no one is going to make you rich beyond the dreams of avarice because you ran a piece of software on your computer a few years back.

  • rancor01

    You seem to believe that everything that you see, hear, and want are the same as everyone in the rest of the world. You do realize that there are more countries in the world aside from the one you live in right? You do realize that credit cards never took hold in Japan? Cash is still king here. You do realize that the remittance business is HUGE in countries around the world. You do realize that a huge swath of the world population in “unbanked”, right? I just can’t understand how people like you, who can apparently form words, sentences, and paragraphs about how terrible the technology is have this provincial attitude of “If it’s not affecting me, it’s not real”. Take a moment to discover how people that aren’t “you” live. You may be surprised. The potential for Bitcoin is huge. Maybe not for you – but it could change the lives of literally billions of people that you probably don’t even know exist, in countries you’ve never heard of.

  • Early adopters indeed want to make a killing and they are risking some dollars for that potential win. This is what all investors do with their money in any type of investment. So setting this up as some delusion is not fair.

    It’s a fallacy to say that lots of bad ideas lost out therefore Bitcoin will lose out too, because those bad ideas weren’t comparable to Bitcoin’s technological innovation. And, most of the people who know tech and understand Bitcoin will tell you that Bitcoin is indeed a significant innovation. The only reason it’s relatively slow in adoption is because it’s an incredibly hard market to penetrate. Bitcoin is an underdog in a completely penetrated market. Even if 100% of people understood and experienced the benefits of Bitcoin it would not mean suddenly everybody started using Bitcoin.

    There are several compelling reasons why Bitcoin is better than Apple Pay, Google Wallet and especially credit cards that the former two is base on anyway.

    Can I send my friend in a random country cash with Apple Pay, Google Wallet or Credit Card right now if he agrees to do some small job for me? No. Even with PayPal he would have to connect either a credit card or a bank account and be in a country that allows receiving funds.

    With Bitcoin he can download a free wallet right now on any device he owns, and receive funds within 10 minutes. And he can spend those funds on ordering something from one of the many online shops that accept bitcoin or convert it to cash on localbitcoins if he wants to.

    None of the currencies currently in the world are accepted. Even the US$ which has been around for a 100+ years and the most widely accepted currency only works for about 7% of the world population. You have to exchange all currencies unless you spend it locally, just like you would do it with BTC.

  • c4p0ne

    See what I mean? … oh, wait…

  • c4p0ne

    Here’s the truth about why I wrote what I did: I simply no longer have the energy or will to meticulously address/debunk this mode of tired anti-bitcoin rhetoric disguised as legitimate concern. I don’t think it’s ad-hom, though. Rather, I see it as an accurate description. No offense to you, friend. Incidentally, I’ve not made any positive claims about Bitcoin (at least not in this thread). As for propaganda, it seems to me the BULK of misinformation/propaganda comes from the anti-crypto side.

    Love the act of pointing at charts btw, especially the way we can just arbitrarily pick the time-frame that best suits our needs. Here let me try: Bitcoin is up 140% as of 4 minutes ago… Oops, back down again as of just now. How about instead of taking it from a year ago, we take it from 2009? In that case its doing *fantastic*. Hilarious. Anyway the good news, is that the bewildered herd really does seem to be thinning.

    That is simply a sign that bad information and bad reasoning cannot exist in the presence of an ever increasing stream of facts and good reasoning (not indefinitely anyway). Oh, and I think people should stop hovering over the price like a stationary UFO and twisting their nipples looking at bubble-charts because that behavior clearly isn’t not doing them any favors in the understanding-of-Bitcoin department. I’ll leave you with the fact that the blockchain is six years old. But what many of these ill-informed trogs are doing is treating it like its something that’s been around for over a century and mounting their (often scathing) indictments of the technology based on that intellectual dishonesty.


    Okay, since you clearly DO see the potential, please explain to me why I should use BTC to buy goods online or at the local store, instead of using my credit card which protects me from fraud and theft, and allows me to dispute charges if the merchant cheats me. Give me ONE good reason why I should trade a credit card that gives me consumer protection for the equivalent of electronic cash.

    And after you’ve thought about that for a while, you may begin to realize why BTC has slowly and steadily fallen over the past 15 months.

  • The blockchain technology is under rated, glad people are seeing past the bitcoin itself

  • lord vader

    join the blockchain

  • If all he said was ” and we will crush them.” You can count me in.

  • Toipster

    I love you “smart investors” telling us young folk how naive we are! Thank you! I’ll hold onto my bitcoin, and I’ll even buy yours if you would like. LOL, .com bubble comparison classic, as well as the tulip and beanie babies comparison. You old folk are just too tech savvy and knowledgable about smart investing. . . . . I mean comparing a new digital, decentralized technology such as btc to tulips or stuffed animals, makes TOTAL sense. Thanks baby boomers!

  • Toipster

    Seems to me like you have an inability to see the potential, and haven’t even really looked into the underlying tech. So, you feel the need to shite all over bitcoin.

  • King_of_the_beans


  • Keith Reed

    Time changes everything including currency, bitcoin is still ahead of its time

  • Julius Guenon

    I agree with you 100%. Just don’t put all of your eggs in one basket, and take the prognostications of those with a large financial stake in the future of Bitcoin with a huge grain of salt.

  • inthebush

    .com bubble??? Markets go up AND down all of the time. just sold for 17 million dollars for just the domain name. I wouldn’t count crypto currencies out yet.

  • mmortal03

    Regarding “gold pimps”, and their apparent relatives, the Bitcoin pimps, sure, they exist. But it doesn’t mean that a long term investment in either won’t be sound, as world currencies continue to be inflated.

  • mmortal03

    “Bitcoin was a classic bubble”

    They also said that when bitcoin went from $32 to $2 back in 2011.

    “It seems like Bitcoin true believers are probably too young to remember the .com bubble, ”

    And, since age isn’t your issue, it seems like you’re just too thick to look back to even as far as the Bitcoin market dynamics of 2011, like I just mentioned. Or, even just as “far” back in 2013, when it peaked around $259 and dropped down to $63.

  • mmortal03

    It doesn’t have to be one or the other. It can be a combination of both, as the network effect continues to expand it out.

  • Justin Green

    Just like Alcohol right?

  • Charles Evans

    “Bitcoin is a solution in search of a problem in any developed economy where consumer transactions are protected by law.”

    ONE ASPECT of Bitcoin is a solution in search of a problem in any developed economy where consumer transactions are protected by law. However, even there, consumer protection is frequently abused, as frequently happens with stolen credit cards and chargeback fraud. Also, 20-25% of the individuals in the USA do not have bank accounts and are poorly served by the status quo.

    “And in any developing economy, BTC will become just as irrelevant once those laws are in place.”

    Fair enough. Let’s pick this back up right after that happens worldwide.

    As for me, I just run out of troll food, and I must move on to more productive things. Do feel free to take the last word, though.

  • ”we will crush them” Clearly you are missing the scale of the problem. The Federal Reserve Banking System and the IRS which colludes with Government and Bankers to deprive the people of their wealth and precious bodily fluids…will not go quietly. Ask Dread Pirate Roberts
    The Bankers can bite and will…when it makes sense for them. Bitcoin can be illegal very quickly and then what.

  • Julius Guenon

    The majority of Bitcoin true believers are “dumb money” type speculators that piled on the trend as it was reaching its apex, as it true of all bubbles. While most of them can spout of a pile of regurgitated cliches about how great Bitcoin is because it’s portable and fungible, etc. or how revolutionary the blockchain is, they don’t seem to realize there’s just no real reason for most people to have a significant stake in it.

    Anyone who bought into the disingenuous gold “perma pumpers” in the mid 00’s knows that this is just the exact same phenomenon, except that Bitcoin managed to capture the public’s imagination in a massive way. Even when gold was at an obvious peak as it inched close to $2000, we were “assured” by a host of “experts” (almost all of whom had a vested interest in us buying gold, just like said “expert” here has a vested interest in pumping Bitcoin) that any price declines were really just “buying opportunities” before gold and silver shot up to $10000 and $500, respectively, and made us all rich.

    Of course, there were (and still are) some very very good reasons for having a chunk of your savings in precious metals, just like there are good reasons to own Bitcoin. But the fact is, the “gold pimps” convinced a bunch of “dumb money” type investors that they should put a significant portion of their assets into precious metals in the light of their various doomsday scenarios (especially “hyperinflation” and “collapse of the dollar”), and bought gold at $1700 and silver at $40, only to watch nearly half of their wealth evaporate during all of those “buying opportunities” over the next few years.

    What’s funny is that some of the exact same people are pumping the exact same nonsense, e.g., Max “$500 Silver” Keiser (who I think has his own cryptocurrency he’s pumping as well.)

    Again, I am not here to hate on Bitcoin. I’m far from a “statist” and I believe in sound money, personal liberty, and tend to believe that Austrian economists are more correct than the Keynsian money printers currently running the Federal Reserve. However, you should be very very cautious here. If you’re going to buy more Bitcoin, wait for the carnage to settle and wait for it to establish a long term price support and ignore these “$40,000 Bitcoin” clowns.


    And why would those 5 billion individuals use a cryptocurrency with a history rife with fraud, theft, and speculation in place of phone-based banking systems such as M-PESA? Oh, right, M-PESA’s fees are too high. As opposed to BTC, where the fees are lower but your money can be stolen without recourse, by some hacker on the other side of the world. I’ll bet those 5 billion individuals can’t wait to be scammed.

    Bitcoin is a solution in search of a problem in any developed economy where consumer transactions are protected by law. And in any developing economy, BTC will become just as irrelevant once those laws are in place.

  • Unified Me

    Yes, Dotcom was a bubble, but I think the comparison of Bitcoin and Blockchain to Dotcom is incorrect. I think the analogy is more apt of Bitcoin/Blockchain is to the Internet, and DotCom would then be more equivalent to Blockchain Applications.

  • Charles Evans

    Your assertion was, “[T]here is no compelling case for the overwhelming majority of consumers to use it.” I countered that assertion.

    Your response is a non-sequitur.

    The existence of the Bitcoin Investment Trust, Winklevoss ETF, Coinbase, Coinsetter, or any other Silicon Valley or Wall Street darling does not diminish the fact that 5 billion individuals now have access to the global marketplace who did not have such access until only very recently, which is a preeminently compelling case for consumer adoption worldwide.

  • Julius Guenon

    Do you have anything to offer other than ad hominem and “shaming language?”

    You don’t have to be a “troglodyte” to question Bitcoin, and the sort of blue-sky rhetoric from entrepeneurs who are “talking their book”.

    Please compare the Bitcoin price chart to the “classic bubble chart” as referenced in this article and ask yourself honestly if this is a financial vehicle you’d recommend to a person nearing retirement.

    Again, I’m completely for anything that offers an alternative to state-issued fiat currency, but the price chart just looks terrible. The “$40,000 Bitcoin” arguments are basically just a rehash of the “$500 silver” and “$10000 gold” arguments that have been around for decades as well. That being said, I of course do not have a crystal ball. However, you’d be best served by really letting Bitcoin find a bottom here before buying more. The burden of proof is not on the “troglodytes” to prove their case when something has lost about 80% of its value over the course of a year.


    So those Silicon Valley investors put all that money into startups with no expectation of any marketshare in the developed world? They’re aiming strictly at the third world?

    I think the Winklevoss twins (and many more like them) would disagree strongly with you.


    Oh, yes, those anti-Bitcoin troglodytes and their ever-thinning herd … which is why the value of BTC just hit $20,000 … oh, wait …

  • Derek Pater

    Have you read up on peercoin and reddcoin? POS and POSV

  • c4p0ne

    Sigh, I’m sitting here looking at the ever-thinning herd of anti-bitcoin troglodytes rattling on with the same old state-supportive threadarrhea year-in-year-out and thinking, “Wth, these people still exist?” I mean where have you numpties all been for the last 5 years, on f*cking Neptune? Never, mind, stay there.

  • Charles Evans

    “[T]here is no compelling case for the overwhelming majority of consumers to use it.”

    Perhaps, in provincial enclaves clinging desperately to relevancy on the outer fringes of the Western Hemisphere, like Silicon Valley and Brooklyn, but among the 5 billion unbanked in Emerging Middle Income Regions of the world, Bitcoin enables the majority of humanity to participate in the increasingly integrated global marketplace as equals for the first time in human history.

  • Julius Guenon

    Yup, what you said. Bitcoin was a classic bubble, and undoubtedly the speculation of the century. The technology behind it is compelling. That being said, the $1000+ price was an obvious bubble of the “Dutch Tulip mania” type, epitomized by the fact that the “dumb money” mom and pop type investors piled in towards the end.

    It seems like Bitcoin true believers are probably too young to remember the .com bubble, and most of them have no finance experience, so here’s a quick primer. Bitcoin is really just a commodity, and a highly speculative one at that. If you turn off your laundry list of reasons “why” Bitcoin should be higher than it is today and just look at its chart as if it were any other commodity, it’s obvious that it’s an absolute disaster from a technical analysis standpoint — a classic “ski slope” with lower highs and lower lows with no real support in sight. Don’t assume that the “cost of mining” will provide a floor on the price either (any primary silver miner can painfully tell you how a commodity can easily trade for less than its cost of production for potentially years at a time.)

    Overall, I agree with your point, and I don’t see why more people aren’t talking about the “demand” side of Bitcoin. What reason is there for the average housewife who orders things on Amazon to get a Bitcoin wallet? I’m a techie myself, and generally am surrounded by techie types all day, but I don’t know anyone who’s actually conducting business regularly with this “currency”. Indeed, it’s way too unstable to use as a currency. Would you honestly want to be paid in something that could be worth 20% less the day after you received it?

    People who live with their entire heads inside the techie milieu don’t realize that the vast majority of people aren’t out to adopt the latest and greatest when it serves no real utilitarian purpose besides (let’s face it) buying drugs or hookers anonymously, or moving money quickly and discreetly offshore. Even so, anyone who’s taken a look at Bitcoin’s price action would be pretty foolish to not immediately trade it for cash (or something tangible.)


    “Unimaginable”? As in “I can’t imagine anything useful to do with the blockchain concept, but everyone tells me it’s a brilliant idea (or at least everyone who is pushing BTC), so I guess I’ll keep repeating what they tell me”?

    The blockchain is a clever cryptographic idea, but unless you can guarantee against a 51% attack, it is hardly a sinecure against fraud, theft, or corruption. Bitcoin is several years old, and I have yet to hear of one other application of blockchain technology EXCEPT for digital currencies. Which makes sense when you think about it, since it is so dreadfully slow and inefficient.

  • I’m fine with waiting a few years… More time to buy!

  • nederhoed

    True, if all 10,000 were managed by one business.

    If 10,000 developers approach the domain like a swarm of independent builders, you get unimaginable results and the best projects will thrive.

  • mike

    Or google

  • You do know currency was just the first app of Bitcoin, right? The potential is nearly unimaginable in terms of what can be done with Bitcoin’s underlying technology…


    The lessons of the first dot-com bust (and every other financial bubble in the last 30 years) seem to be lost on BitCoin true believers. Lots of bad ideas have had lots of money and developers thrown at them. It didn’t guarantee success.

    In two years, the price of Bitcoin will be much lower than it is today, for one simple reason: there is no compelling case for the overwhelming majority of consumers to use it. Bitcoin, a currency with all the weaknesses of cash, has to compete with systems like Apple Pay, Google Wallet, and credit cards that provide both theft and fraud protection (and reimbursement) by federal law. Where is that support system for Bitcoin? And if it were implemented, what would it cost? Maybe that same 2% to 3% that credit card processors charge for those same guarantees?

    Bitcoin only has the hype that it does because all the early adopters are hoping to make a killing off of it. About two-thirds of all BTC that will ever exist are in the hands of less than 0.01% of the world’s population. Obviously there is a huge incentive for those people to convince others to adopt BTC as a currency, but it’s a delusional pipe dream, and everyone else is realizing it.

  • Emad

    “Now what happens when you throw 10,000 developers at a problem?” – Internet Explorer that’s what!

  • Nuno Edgar Fernandes

    Interesting stuff!

  • 1337

    To the moon !

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